HTML Writers Guild Guild Operations Events 990826 Meeting

Town Hall Meeting - 26 August 1999

(What follows is a log of the meeting, automatically generated by the eShare software.)

Rackety Hiya.
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HWGmember #townhall
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Kynn Hello!
andy hmm.. didn't meen to whisper
Kynn Weird.
andy Long story... screen name
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Kynn Okey dokey.
Kynn Won't be anyone here for another half hour so I'm going to idle for a bit.
aaron k
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Kynn Hello new person! :)
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Carole Good Evening everybody!
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Carole Hi Everybody! Kynn, I thought our Secretary was tonite's host, not that I object to you being host again. :)
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Carole Welcome Shannon and Trekkie
Trek good evening
ShannonP Hello
Carole I think Kynn is still having dinner. Always gets the room ready while trying to grab a bite. :)
Trek LOL
Trek i take it i am on time then
Carole Have you been to any meetings before?
Trek not i
Carole Well, it's fun, so glad you could make it. And yes, you are early, actually. ;)
Trek cool
Carole Any "hot topics" you want to address?
Trek not at the moment
Carole Hmmm, I'm not sure what the adgenda is yet, but I'm sure we'll find out!
Carole Shannon, have you been here before?
Carole Aaron, are you in the JS class right now?
ShannonP Sorry, I'm finishing up some things - No, this is my first meeting.
Carole Sorry *NOT* required here. No problem.
aaron no i am not
Carole Glad to see you here, too!
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frank Hi ther Frank boumphrey joining
Carole Hi Frank! I *LUV* your Style Sheets book.
ShannonP Howdy Frank
frank Thanks Carole
frank Hi shannon
frank This is my firstime using an IRC!
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Kynn Hello everyone! Glad to see you got it working, Frank!
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Kynn Well, it looks like it's about that time, so I'll open the August town hall meeting...
Kynn I'm Kynn Bartlett, I'm the president of the Guild; I also write the newsletters and run the AWARE Center as well as teaching online classes.
Kynn Frank here is our VP of Special Events including conferences and such, and he also teaches online courses.
Kynn If you like, feel free to introduce yourself as well; I'm informal and don't insist on being the only one talking!
frank Thats news tome Kynn
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Trek LOL
Trek my true name is marc, and i am kinda a newbie to the meeting and IRC
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Carole Well, I'm Carole Gay. I'm a TA for the JS class, a not so active lately volunteer for the AWARE center. I've been a member since '95 and typically talk tooooooo much.
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Lester Hi, guys.
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Rolo1 My name is Gary, This is also my first townhall meeting
iris77788 Hello! My name is Heather. I've been a member for almost two years but this is the first town hall meeting I have been able to attend
Kynn Welcome to all of you who are new and who have been here before, too.
Lester My first meeting, too. I've been a member for almost a year.
Carole Hi to you, too, Lester. Glad to see Ms. Fealy here too!
cfealy Hi!
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Rolo1 I've been a member for about 2 years or so, but my first meeting
Kynn Lester, hello! And whoever else just came in. :)
Trek carole must be button happy this eve
Carole Wow, I like the number of people here tonite.
achoate "float"
Kynn The point of these meetings is to allow you, the membership, to have an opportunity to talk to us and each other about the Guild.
iris77788 How many people usually attend?
Carole No, every time I do a reply on ICQ i get evicted. so turned it off.
Kynn For that reason I don't like to set an agenda but instead just let you members set the topics. If we go on too long, though, I may ask us to move along. :)
frank I would like to ask if any one of you have taken Guild classes, and if so what have you thought of them
Kynn The perennial town hall topic. :)
Carole Grunches!!!
Lester I've taken ten or eleven. :)
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Carole Hi Mikey
frank Sorry I'm new so lets leave that topic if you want!
Mikey Hi Carole
Rolo1 I took an HTML 4.0 course last year and I like it until the end. I had switched computers and was never able to complete it
Kynn I think Lester may hold the record for the most HWG classes!
Kynn No, it's okay, Frank. :)
Kynn Hi Mikey.
Carole Probably.
Mikey Hi Kynn
Kynn Oh, here's another topic. What do you think of the new lists? HWG-Style and HWG-XML?
Carole And Frank, we LUV to talk about classes here. *GRIN*
Rolo1 I like the Style one very much.. Great idea
Kynn I'd like to thank Aaron Choate (achoate) for his great work in getting those lists set up.
frank Not much activity as of yet
iris77788 Intro to Photoshop - Unfortunately at the end of the class I was still having trouble but the instructor was unwilling to help because the class had ended. Otherwise I really liked the class
achoate thanks
Kynn Aaron is our list admin and helps keep everything running smoothly behind the scenes; he doesn't get as much credit as he should, so I want everyone to know that he's appreciated!
Carole Aaron, you're the good guy! Nice JOB!
achoate heh
Lester Kudos, Aaron. :)
Trek thx aaron
Rolo1 Good Job Aaron
Carole Ok, we're giving him a swelled head. That's great. :)
achoate POP!
Rolo1 lol
Trek LOL
Kynn As far as classes go -- are there other types of classes that we're not offering that you'd like to see? The perennials are "advanced perl" and "advanced javascript" -- anything else?
Kynn AUGH i got ACHOATE BRAINZ on me
Rolo1 lol
Lester I haven't taken *every* course yet, so I can't say for sure what I think's missing. :)
Carole Yup, posted a message on the Guild Futures board. How about some classes on So you wanna build a shopping cart, and other more "real world" applications.
Kynn Carole, that's an interesting idea; I wonder, though, how applicable some of the material would be. E.g., shopping carts depend a LOT on your server arrangements.
Rolo1 There have been allot of movement into asp and server side dynamic pages. maybe something in that area
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Felan In case anyone was wondering, Win95 is a rotten OS.
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Carole I mean, now that we all have our feet wet with languages. Yes, Kynn, but in general terms, "Here's what you need to do" then apply the server requirements
frank We cover that in our asp class
Kynn We've got an ASP class -- Frank teaches it! Hey, new arrival.
Kynn Hello, Felan! Felan is Leanne Phillips, she is our HWG Secretary and VP of Member Education or Member Services or something.
frank now now leane
Carole Well, sign me up for ASP then. But my server is UNIX and isn't ASP a BillSoft product?
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Kynn Maybe we need an e-commerce class, Carole? I know that people are real psyched about the Web Management class -- an "overview" type class on ecommerce could be useful.
Kynn Hi again Les
achoate how about php?
frank Yes I dont think you can do it on unix
Les hi. E-commerce sounds like a great idea to me.
Carole I agree on that E-commerce class.
Kynn PHP would be great. I'd love to see someone volunteer to teach it. :)
frank I have a Prof in Toronto who teaches a course in e-commerce. He woiuld be willing to teachan HWG class
achoate ummm... me too
iris77788 would it be focused on a specific ecommerce solution?
achoate *smile*
Les And perhaps a linux class for all those windows users. I hear that the new Macs will be linux based soon.
Carole LOL
Kynn I want to learn PHP -- I have a book, just haven't sat down with it -- so I can't teach it. :)
Felan It IS, Frank, it's why I'm late.
Les What's PHP?
frank Im struggling with linnux on an old machine of mine right now.
Felan What's PHP? Is it something to do CGI with on Unix?
Felan That's our man, Frank!
achoate I've been playing with it for some apps at the Library, but would not classify myself as.. teacher quality yet
Carole My husband would be an excellent LINUX teacher. It's part of what he does
Kynn PHP is an inline server side scripting language built into Apache.
frank The learning curveis quite steep for Linux IMO
Les Thanks, Kynn.
frank PHP looks very similar to ASP
Felan Ah, oh, Kynn.
Kynn Part of the problem with Linux could be that most of the major help you may not be able to do online, as someone's computer may not be functioning at the time!
Felan I suspect it's one of the things on my list of things to learn.
Carole But it's been around for years and is a boon to the almost Unix folks.
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Felan Is our topic 'learning programming' or 'more classes' or 'whatever we think of saying' right now? :)
iris77788 what other classes would you like to see taught?
Carole I can suggest RED HAT as an excellent program.
frank Linux is real fast! Its a joy touse an application on it after windows!
Kynn Right now it's 'what other classes' :)
Kynn We should probably avoid the 'linux rulez' and 'windoze blows' thread for now. :)
Carole And, if you want to run dual-processor stuff, you can run a virtual WIN system via LINUX.
cfealy Is there a class for "how to sell yourself to a client"?
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Carole No, but a good idea.
Les I'd suggest the Web Management class, cfealy.
Kynn There's not, nope.
Kynn Les likes me.
Kynn :)
Kynn The next session of the web management class should rock.
Les It just makes sense. If you want to sell yourself to a client, it's more a case of asking them the right questions.
Kynn This is the first time through so Lester is a guinea pig.
cfealy I'll be sure to sign up :-)
Kynn Hey, here's a question.
Kynn How did you guys find the HTML Writers Guild, and what specifically caught your interest?
Kynn We have a new marketing consultant who is asking us, on the board, questions like that.
Rolo1 The mailing lists and mingling with people that know the business. learning new things etc
Kynn So I want to hear from some of you what you think the HTML Writers Guild is all about, since you have a very different perspective.
Felan Yeah, what Kynn said.
iris77788 support
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Les Here's my answer, Kynn. I took a 3-day HTML class at a local junior college. At the end of the course, I asked the instructor where I could learn more. He said, "Well, I got this job through an HWG contact."
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Kynn Cool, Les!
Trek i was browsing some friends pages and noticed each one had a link back to HWG so i checked it out, and was interested in the program. all the offers and info were especially interesting
Carole Ugh, I'm getting kicked out again.
frank I signed up for the HTML techniques list
Kynn Carole, you have the worst luck staying connected!
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Carole Yeah, I think it's all these ethernet connections running all over my house1
Carole So what was cool that Les said?
Kynn That he took a class and his instructor said he got the job through an HWG contact, when Les asked where he could learn more.
Mikey HWG is a place where standards for web development are promoted and taught, reguardless of the environment or development tools.
Kynn The way I (as president and a member of the board) view the HTML Writers Guild is that it's a support network for the web creator. No one of us knows everything, but we know the Guild, and members of the HWG know things.
achoate I was introduce to a list called hwg-talk by one of my coworkers and then offered to volunteer when a call for a group of "list guides" was put out
Carole Ah ha. I was hunting for any help I could find cause I was taking a class with a teacher who didn't have a clue (special arrangement).
achoate or was it main
achoate i forget
Rolo1 as a webmaster of a small non profit site, it was a place to learn, and get advice and opinions.
Carole So I searched frantically and found HWG - Thank goodness!!
Kynn Maybe -maim, Aaron.
achoate *smile*
Felan What do you guys think of the recent mailing list changes?
Rolo1 there are several lists you can join whether they are broad like the basics list or more specailized like the style list
Carole LOL
Felan Oh, Kynn says he asked that.
Felan See? I was late and now I don't know. *sulk*
Kynn It's all Bill Gates' fault!
Carole They are good, but only the Style list seems to be active right now.
Kynn Yeah, I think XML will be slow in getting started.
Carole LOL!!!
frank Why Kynn?
Kynn Because it's still 'new stuff' to the vast majority of our members.
Kynn I don't even feel that comfortable with my own grasp on XML! I may have to sit down with your book for a day or so.
frank What do the rest of you think of XM:
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Kynn Hi Felan and Carole
Kynn We are talking about XML
Felan2 Aigh. Bounce the old me, please, Kynn?
Kynn Oh BTW I mean 'the XML list' not 'XML' itself. :)
Rolo1 thats what I would like to learn next is the XML
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achoate I think it will be good when we get a good browser implimentation of the standard
Kynn Frank is our XML guy :)
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Les What do you guys recommend as an IRC program for Windows? I'm visiting through the default Java IRC right now.
Carole1 Regarding this "how to get a client to hire you", I can make a wee suggestion. Find a site that does something you know well, and needs some work. Send email. It works. :) Another suggestion, find a company that needs to be on the web, and offer your services. That works too!
Felan I'm using mIRC, Les.
frank IE5 is preety good, and the new gecko browsers will be even better.
Rolo1 I'm using Pirch 98, its a good one, fairly simple to use
achoate IE5 scares me in what they decied not to implement, but am excited aboiut gecko
frank Im using mIRC as well. This is my first time and it seems quite easy to use.
Carole1 I think I will have to try that IRC. stuff cause I get booted more than I care to imagine.
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frank must be if I can use it :)
Les Thanks, all.
Felan Hi Scott
achoate I am using the java client on the interact page
Carole1 Hi Scott.
Rolo1 I have found the IRC clients are allot more stable than the java clients, just personal experience though
achoate I agree, but I haven't crashed so far *smile*
Rolo1 *knock on wood*
Carole1 Well, guys, keep talking. I have to go to the airport. My better half is coming back from Seattle (major network upgrade, yuck) so he's been gone this week. Hope you're still here when I get back.
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Trek safe drive carole
Carole1 thanks
Les solong carole
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Kynn I'm using mIRC on win98 too.
Felan Is there anything you guys think we should be doing that we're not?
Les Looks like you're outvoted, Rolo. :)
frank You're using windows kynn!
Rolo1 lol
frank And I thought you were a 'real' programmer:)
Rolo1 I have mIRC but was talked into this Pirch98 by some friends
Kynn I always use windows for my desktop machine. :)
Rolo1 lol
Kynn It's a nice toy that lets me access the real computers.
frank aha!
HWGmember is everyone here on the board, or are there some real members here?
Les I'm not on the board.
achoate i'm a member
Rolo1 real members???
cfealy I'm a member tambien
Rolo1 I'm a full member does that count?
Kynn There are lots of real members! Only 3 board members present.
frank sorry, I though that I was a real member:)
Rolo1 lol
Trek member
Kynn I pay my dues, I must be a member!
achoate Nope, check your board papers... *smile*
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achoate In the fine print..
HWGmember is this a typical turnout for a town meeting?
Les Another question: How can members find one another through the Guild? How do I find Frank's e-mail and Web page, for instance?
Felan I'm a real member, I pay dues!
Rolo1 wasn't there a list not too long ago..
Felan Alas, yes, Memb.
Kynn This is typical, HWGmember.
Felan We want more, but can't get more to show up.
Kynn Les, for privacy reasons we don't have a public or member-public membership list.
HWGmember Ok, so everybody's a member! That's great!
cfealy Maybe you should promise them beer or something.
Kynn However, you could find out Frank's email address if he posts to a list!
Felan Well, Les, mostly you get email addresses by seeing them post, and then you email him and ask him for his web page. :)
MikeyInAK Who updates the HWG web site? I noticed a few pages that are out of date
Les Hmmm. Well, when I'm in a class, I can follow a link to every other student's e-mail address. But once the class is over, I can't. Doesn't seem right, somehow.
achoate You should be able to mail to the person who is listed in the header ot the footer of the page
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cfealy Would it be too difficult to offer a portfolio link (database driven, of course) for members?
Kynn Yeah, if you see anything that's obviously out of date, PLEASE mail the maintainer! We have limited volunteer resources and every helpful eyeball helps!
Kynn Right now, yes, cfealy. :)
MikeyInAK Will do.
Kynn Our current database has been held together the last two years by duct tape, chewing gum, and lots of prayers. We are investing a sizeable amount of money in building a "real" DB system.
frank How about it cfealy, that would be great!
Felan Many many prayers.
Felan And a few curses.
Kynn That should be available before the end of the year and could possibly offer that kind of functionality. The tricky part would be a disclaimer to protect the Guild's corporate assets regarding member claims.
Felan There's also a bit of an issue of protecting that list, if we put one together, from harvesters - I don't personally know a good way to do that.
Felan We do NOT want our membership lists harvested by spammongers!
frank How do you stop that!
Kynn E.g., if the database lists you, and someone hires you, and you cheat them, can they sue the guild? if you have no money, they might mistakenly assume that we have Deep Pockets.
frank They can always sue, but they can't always collect
Kynn Or, it's possible that a Guild member could enter as a portfolio entry a site they didn't create. E.g. "I created" when they didn't.
cfealy Ahhh... I understand. Maybe the Graphics Artists' Guild lawyers have some insight into the legal issues....
Kynn Well, they couldn't collect because, despite our numbers, we're not rich so you can't get blood from a turnip! :) But the expense of defending ourselves in court would be damaging to the HWG.
Felan Extremely so.
cfealy ... but I think they have money.
Kynn We'd also have to look at what the GAG (is that their acronym, really?) and others have done, and if they're the same type of organization, under the law, that we are.
frank Actually you can't be liable if you offer info in good faith. However that doesnt stop someone filing suite, and then you have to defend yourself
MikeyInAK Would not the same rules apply that apply to job search web sites that allow people to post resumes and the like?
frank They are usually full of disclaimers
Kynn Yes and no, Mikey -- they have money for lawyers and are generally run as "for profit" sites. We are run as a non-profit educational organziation and so there may be limits on what we can do.
Kynn For example, we are limited in the amount of our budget that we can spend towards "professional" activities -- a complex data bank system may exceed that, but the current HWG-Jobs information list is doable.
frank Being an educational organization actually puts us in the same position as the press. not only must we have acted negligently, but we must have done the negligence deliberatly
frank sorry, can't type, can't spell!
Les I have to run, folks. Good seeing you all.
Felan Hey, glad you could show up, Les. Please come to the next one too!
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Kynn Yes, I am agreeing that we could defend ourselves, but I am also not wanting to spend membership dues on legal fees if we can avoid it! :)
frank One case would eat up our entire budget!
cfealy Just checked the page (yes, really *grin* ) and they have a massive disclaimer and are also affiliated with the UAW.
Rolo1 hmm maybe you can get members to help out
Felan Prolly not at a significant level, Rolo.
Felan So! Anything else we're not offering that you would like us to? :)
Rolo1 looks like I need to drop back over to the class site and take another look
cfealy Brain implant? I've got a lot of catching up to do! *grin*
Rolo1 lol
Kynn Aha, yes, as a full-fledged _union_ the GAG is a much much different entity from the HWG, in legal terms.
Kynn They can do things we could never possibly dream of doing, and vice versa.
Rolo1 Is HWG really that broke??
frank I woulld like to ask a question. What additional educational activities would you like to see us provide?
Felan Well, we're not rich, that's for sure.
Kynn No, we're not broke! We just are not...well, what Felan said. :)
frank Its called hand to mouth!
Rolo1 lol
Rolo1 ok
Kynn The Guild is in a lot better shape financially than we have EVER been; the last year or so we've been able to do amazing things thanks to member support.
Felan We don't have the money for a protracted court case, for sure, and our operating budget is not very large.
Rolo1 maybe we should be talking not about what you can do for us... etc etc
Kynn But in many ways we don't have nearly as much money to spend as people think we have -- someone tried to get us to spend $30,000 on a party or something, wasn't it?
frank Actually our real assetts are our members and volunteers
Kynn Rolo, actually, when Leanne says 'us' I usually think of it as asking 'what do _we want to do together_' rather than what (some of us) can do for (some of you). :)
Felan Just ('just') $11k.
Rolo1 I'll be honest with the exception of the lists and 1 class I haven't really been involved as much as I would like to be
frank Yep 30000 dollars to entertain our European members!
Kynn The board likes to include the members in the decision making process, because that's what the HTML Writers Guild is all about.
Felan Oh was it $30k? I missed that part.
Kynn So really Felan is asking 'What would you like to volunteer to help with?' :) :) )
Rolo1 lol
Felan I would certainly adore it if people volunteered to help with anything they see as lacking, yes. :)
Trek good night all, wish i could stay, but have work in the am
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frank Hey rolo, youre here!!
Kynn Bye Trek!
Rolo1 mostly what I do is setting up non profit communites. nothing like what all of you do I am sure
Rolo1 and pretty much lurk on the lists
frank That should be not for profit
Kynn Well, we are a non-profit and we are a community, so perhaps we can work together. :)
Rolo1 lol
MikeyInAK Where's Barney?
frank I have been involved with alot of non-profit organizations, but they didnt want to be that way!
Kynn (Maybe we shouldn't have put frank on the Board!)
Rolo1 I wrote and maintain a Transplant support web site and host the bb's and chat room.
Rolo1 lol
Rolo1 ours is a support not for profit, although I accept donations for the site lol
frank whats the url rolo, sounds interesting
Kynn Frank is a doctor, he's into that medical stuff. Me, I am scared of hospitals.
Kynn And VERY scared of FRANK!
frank Thanks rolo
Rolo1 nothing large like I said. mostly small time, but getting there
Felan Hospitals are scary darned places.
frank Well I never Kynn, and I thought I was such a gentle guy!
Rolo1 We began on Prodigy and have migrated up to the web
Kynn :)
Kynn Come to the HWG Town Hall, everyone! Watch the Board members tease each other!
Rolo1 That's where I found HWG, was on there.
Rolo1 lol
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Kynn Hello brewer!
brewer Hi
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Kynn Hello bk!
Felan Keen, Rolo
frank Neat site rolo(and i like the music!)
brewer This is my first time. What are we discussing?
Rolo1 Thank you
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Kynn Right now we are I'm not sure if we're discussing anything right now. :)
brewer Ok I'll open with something. Is anyone aware of the free certification exams going on at
frank No tell me more
Kynn I'm aware. I took one. :)
brewer Which one Kynn?
Kynn I have a 'Master HTML Programmer' certificate sitting on my desk right now.
Kynn The only reason I got some points marked off is because their test is flawed. :) I spotted some "bugs" in their answers but hey what can ya do.
brewer cool. I only have an entry level Web programmer cert.
brewer My strong point was HTML and I'm going to take the HTML programming test.
Felan Was it anything useful, Kynn?
brewer This was the 14th when I tested and as far as I know it is free for 30 days.
Kynn I dunno, not really useful.
Kynn But hey it was free.
Kynn *shrug*
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Kynn It's actually a decent looking certificate, I'm amused that they paid for it to be shipped and stuff. :)
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brewer I figure for someone trying to break into the business it could be useful.
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Kynn But in short it only told me something I knew anyway -- I kick @$$ at HTML. At risk of sounding egotistical, I knew that already, because it's what I do for a living.
Kynn Maybe, brewer. I'm not sure if it would impress me as an employer very much, though. When we hired an employee to do web design, "certifications" were actually a detriment in some cases.
brewer So Kynn throw me some pointers on how to start a career.?
Kynn E.g. someone who was certified in FrontPage or whatever.
frank I just looked at the C page. Perhaps i'll give that a try!
achoate Would you show the cert to somebody who was questioning the level of expertise... OR rely on your work... I guess that's the question when deciding whether to go for certs...
Kynn Okay, lessee. First thing to figure out is what you want your career to be. :) Web designer?
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Kynn I wouldn't show mine to anyone, Aaron, except for bragging rights. ;)
Kynn I think I beat Ann's score.
brewer and programmer.
achoate *smile*
Kynn Okay, these days web design is getting pretty specialized especially in big companies -- you may want to specialize in graphics, or java, or ASP, or cold fusion, or storyserver, or something specific.
Kynn Specific expertise makes you more employable than broad jack-of-all-trade-master-of-none experience.
brewer I'm leaning torward Java and JavaScript.
Kynn Okay, that's a good start because there's a lot of demand for it; although it should be noted that a lot of people do that now anyway.
brewer Also I have alot of experience in graphics such as 3D modeling.
brewer Thats what I do now.
Kynn That's not to discourage you as much as to suggest that you will need to distinguish yourself from the crowd somehow.
brewer Any suggestions for distinguishing myself?
Kynn Now you've put me on the spot. :) I'm much better at HTML trivia quizzes than at career advisement!
brewer I'm sorry I was just wondering. Thanks so much for the help you have offered.
Kynn No, actually, let me see what a good answer would be.
frank Persistence always helps
brewer Thanks frank.
Kynn Have you looked much at the job listings? Do you have an idea of what your ideal job would be? Check to make sure it exists first!
Kynn Skim over something like and find a job that you'd like to have in a year but aren't yet ready for.
Kynn Then figure out what sort of experience you'd need in this next year to get that job. Maybe apply for the job NOW and ask them what you're lacking when they turn you down.
frank The other thing that is help ful is a keen idea of where you want to end up, and be flexible about the means you use to get there
brewer I have been watching the job listings for about a year and a half at
Kynn Ahhh, you're from Jaw Juh. :)
brewer I like that suggestion frank thats the way I like to do things.
Kynn What kind of job openings do you see that you'd be interested in?
Kynn Frank is smarter than I am, he's had more interesting jobs, you should listen to him, not me!
brewer Yes there is a big market for web developement in hotlanta right now.
frank Parkinson, who was an expert at this pointed out that the maincharacteristic of a high flyer was the ability to do jobs that others found distasteful
frank By this he meant that if no one wanted to take the minutes, a high flyer would do this
brewer Its hard to say what I'm interested in because I have not had a web job yet.
frank Ask the question at interviews, how can I help you?
brewer I have a friend who is web master/programmer/sysadmin for a local ISP. That sounds interesting.
frank Try and develop skills that others don't have
frank Do you realize how much knowledge you need to do that job well?
Felan Am I a high flyer because I accepted being Secretary of the Guild which means I have to take minutes, then? :)
frank Most definatly!
brewer Yes and it is a little more than I have right now but is still the only position I have to measure myself against.
brewer I have some volunteer site building jobs lined up for my spare time and am hoping I can get more feel for what that entails as I learn.
frank I've got to go, my wife is giving me nasty looks! (I'm eastern time)
frank Bye all
Felan That's a good way to start, brewer.
Felan G'night Frank!
Rolo1 Bye Frank
achoate gnite frank
*** frank has quit IRC (Leaving.)
Felan You learn a lot doing site building that way, and it'll let you know what you need to do next - and gives you experience to tell employers.
brewer Whats that please?
Felan Volunteer jobs.
brewer Sorry I wasn't paying attention when I missed the chance to say goodnight ot frank.
brewer to frank
brewer Which by the way I need to say to all too.
Rolo1 Good Night brewer
brewer I really appreciate all the help ya'll have offered.
Rolo1 I need to run myself, Take care alll and thank you.
brewer I feel a little more confidence about what ideas I have had so far.
achoate night
*** Rolo1 has left #townhall (Rolo1.)
brewer night
*** brewer has quit IRC (Bye.)
achoate hmmm.. and then they all took off
achoate night
*** achoate has quit IRC (Bye.)
cfealy Guess I'll go too... thanks for hosting!
*** cfealy has quit IRC (Bye.)
Session Close: Thu Aug 26 20:09:14 1999

End of meeting.

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